"We set up the same benefits for lesbians and gays. The issue of equality is important to us. It should be for other companies as well," says Diversity Manager at ČSOB
When did ČSOB start addressing diversity issues in relation to the LGBT+ community?
We have been dealing with diversity at the bank for a long time and typically, of course, gender diversity was the most important issue in the beginning. We started to look more into this topic two years ago when my role as a diversity leader was created. After some time, I also met with our current head of the LGBT+ employee group and we put together topics that relate to this group of employees.
It was great that within a couple of months we had a board approved signing of the Pride Business Forum Memorandum, an initiative to support both employers in embracing LGBT diversity principles and employees in their efforts to ensure their employers treat everyone fairly, regardless of sexual orientation and gender identity. I was pleased that it went so quickly and that our company is also so mature that no big debates were needed. Something like this is not quite common yet, unfortunately, because if you look at the list of Pride Business Forum signatories, it's very short.
You mentioned the LGBT+ employee group. What exactly can I imagine by that?
In any group, I think it's a good thing when people who do it with their hearts and from the bottom take the initiative. That's why we have an LGBT+ employee group called PROUD, which brings together colleagues from the community and their friends and organises events for them. We also work together on what to do next to make them feel comfortable in the company, because they have the insight into what is needed, whereas I have access to management and budgets. So we work together on what to do within that, whether it's informal things, attending conferences, etc. When there is an opportunity, we communicate these things to the bank so that people can join in. We have an intranet site for that.
What were the main reasons you actually started to look into this as a company?
Diversity to me is inclusion. Everyone should be able to reach their potential and if there are certain groups that might be unfairly disadvantaged, we need to stand up for them. This is something that applies a lot to the LGBT+ community. We definitely see the value in that and that's why we're addressing it. However, these values will not arise on their own if they remain at the level of some general proclamations that society will not understand. My biggest job is to bring to a broad audience the answer to why this topic is important. It may seem obvious to those of us who somehow encounter it more often, but it is certainly not so on a larger scale.
Specifically in relation to the LGBT+ community, my initial perception was that there was a general view that it was fine because we don't discriminate against anyone, but when specific points were made and it was pointed out that, for example, there are not equal benefits for colleagues who have registered partners and are not able to marry, or that someone has to hide, which often leads to less effectiveness at work, other colleagues understood this better. Yet most of them mean no harm when they say at the outset that discrimination does not need to be addressed because there is none. My role here is to raise these very issues and answer the "why" questions. If we can explain this, everything we then do will come much more easily to colleagues.
Bára VachováPhoto: Foto: se souhlasem Báry Vachové
Have you ever encountered some of your colleagues not getting it and wondering why you are doing something for the LGBT+ community and nothing for the straight community? For example, even in comments on the internet, the phrase "if they didn't shout so much, no one would notice them" often appears?
I would say that this is everywhere. It's not about ČSOB, it's about Czech society. But I think that there are many intelligent colleagues working in the bank and that the environment here is very friendly and inclusive in itself, without doing anything. We have professionals working here with whom the debate is certainly better than with the general public, whom I do not want to offend. I see things like this much more outside of CSOB. But that's the way it is with everything. It always takes a while for a sensitive topic to be discussed and settled. Consider that a hundred years ago we lived in a very different society.
I'm an advocate of normal and practical things where people usually get it, and I think it's the role of big employers to overcome that and do things that are right. On the other hand, I definitely agree that this topic can't be pushed by force because diversity in general stirs up quite a lot of emotion. In our country we do it non-violently, we don't force anyone to do anything, but we let people discuss everything. Thanks to that, I see that there are more and more supporters, whether in PROUD or elsewhere.
If we were to highlight some of the things that ČSOB offers extra to people from the LGBT+ community compared to other companies and current legislation, what would they be?
Definitely benefits. Examples include time off to marry a same-sex partner or to have a social parent accompany a child to the doctor, that is, one in a same-sex couple who is not the child's biological parent. The CSOB also allows paternity leave for the adoption of a child, as the child of a registered partner, whether their own or taken into care, is also considered to be a 'child of the employee'. Similarly, a "marriage" is defined under our internal regulations as the conclusion of a registered partnership or similar union abroad. Unfortunately, Czech law does discriminate in these cases.
In this respect, we would like to appreciate the support of the Pride Business Forum, where there are really professionals who share with us the experience of companies that have already gone through something similar. They gave us everything ready to go and thanks to that we were able to implement things immediately. In addition, among the members of the Pride Business Forum is the law firm Allen & Overy, which helped us with everything legally. It's not a big deal and it doesn't cost much, but it's terribly important to send the message that all these situations are normal things for us. I'm sure no other firm has to worry about this and I would love to see more and more of them.
Last year we even won the Pride Business Forum's Jumper of the Year award for our activities, which was very nice. But I always try to say that we've really just done normal things, not any big campaign.
You must have been delighted to receive such an award and I guess it's an important confirmation that you're moving in the right direction?
It's definitely a confirmation of the right path and I'm proud because all the criteria are evaluated by an expert jury. It's good that we get feedback on how we are doing. I also get positive feedback from our colleagues here and there and it's great, so again I would like to say to those companies to go for it because it's not something terrible, difficult, expensive or big.
I heard that you are now also going to have your own LGBT Forum for financial institutions?
Yes. In May, we're going to have an LGBT Forum for financial institutions along with other banks that have signed on to the Pride Business Forum. We see really great potential in that because we and institutions like us are often big employers. Unfortunately, many Czech companies have not implemented anything like this yet, and I believe that if a bank like ČSOB, which is a traditional Czech bank, can do it, others can too. We want to set an example and get this topic more widely known. At the same time, we want to share with others in this event what it is good for.
Do you think that the Czech state could also learn from the activities of companies like yours that openly support diversity and try to lead their corporate culture in this direction?
It certainly can, and I believe it does. This is already happening today, for example, in the field of digitalisation, where we and similar employers often make suggestions. It is certainly good to have discussions with the state to move things forward, whatever the issue may be. Businesses often have a head start on many things, but with the way everything is politicised around the LGBT+ community, sometimes some things get stuck, like the current approval of marriage for all. Luckily there are a lot of politicians who are interested in diversity issues, so we try to keep in touch with them. Nonprofits and businesses that are coming together like this and making things happen can set an example for the state. But I still think that Czech society is generally quite tolerant and I see a lot of progress in many things.
In Parliament, some opponents often say that the LGBT+ community is a negligible part of the population, so there is no need to deal with them... Do you have an idea of how many people you are talking to as part of your initiative in the company?
We have thousands of employees and we certainly don't ask anyone how they are doing and it's actually a pointless question. I don't really care because everyone should feel comfortable, whether they're like this or like that. I reckon we'll have some statistically normal representation in the ranks of the staff, but I wouldn't narrow it down to individuals who are or aren't part of the LGBT+ community, as they are often supporters and families. For example, we have cases where children of our colleagues are going through the debate about being trans, gay and lesbian and the issues we discuss then affect them as well. It's a terribly sensitive subject for these colleagues and it's important that it's talked about in the company. If you know that these topics are being discussed in the company and that you have all the same benefits as other colleagues, for example, and you can talk about it freely, that's the right thing to do. It's a terrible shame to hide because then your talent is not developed enough either. Even if it's one percent, we are a human society that should be inclusive of everyone.
